OH MY GOD!!

  • New Wordpress Plug-In Forum
    Guest:

    Just a note that we have a new forum to contain discussions relating to the Wordpress plug-in which Daniel Persson originated and has been making great progress on. You'll find it under "Server-Side Solutions."

    /Steve.

Steve

Administrator
Staff member
May 6, 2018
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www.grc.com
Right, Paul. I did not mean that I don't pay for electricity and gas service to my home. Because those are providing ongoing value. The same is for Amazon Prime and Netflix. Again, ongoing value. But not what Adobe, Office, and so many others have become.
 

Dave

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
384
73
Gardner, MA
So you're implying that you don't pay for DNS names, or Internet service, or Netflix, or
Apples and oranges. Paying for ongoing services is one thing. But paying rent forever on a piece of self contained software that I installed on my system is another thing, entirely. The latter rubs me the wrong way as well. I made a purchase, I did not sign a maintenance agreement. But today, making a sale isn't enough, it has to be a revenue stream.
 

Gristle

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2019
341
70
Dave, that's exactly my point. SQRL can't be a revenue stream. It is stated so in the introductory pages. SQRL is free. That should apply to the server, and it should apply to the clients. Anyone who is trying to make money here is going to end up hurting SQRL at the expense of making a few bucks. I understand the desire to get paid for hard work, but there's got to be a better way than putting the burden on the users we will need on our side to get this technology adopted.

I'd feel much better donating my money right now to support the development of a 100% free SQRL client for iOS. Jeff, if you're listening, I'll donate $200 to you if you'd commit to making SQRL free and open sourcing it so I, and others, can contribute my skills and passion to the project.
 

PHolder

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
910
122
I'm not suggesting I love the idea of "renting" software either. On the other hand, for certain types of software, it might be the only way to provide a significant enough income for a company to afford ongoing operations. I wonder if it's not just a different way of paying for things... For example $10/month for it... with many updates over a decade ... which would be $1200 a decade... or a one time purchase of $2500... with no further updates without a further large payment.
 

Gristle

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2019
341
70
yeah, but SQRL isn't anything like those pieces of SW. At it's core, it's a very lightweight and straightforward protocol that once adopted and implemented correctly will not need to change dramatically over time. The only reason I brought up "subscription" was in the context of a periodic donation to the developer to say "thank you for making this software free." I suppose the correct term for this would be shareware.
 
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PHolder

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
910
122
Personally, I think Jeff gets to decide what he values his work at, and you all have no basis to tell him otherwise. If he makes a bad decision, then another party will come along to fill whatever void.
 

Gristle

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2019
341
70
Agree with you first point, not your second. It's up to Jeff to decide, and I'm not telling him otherwise. I'm expressing an informed opinion about technology. My opinion is that SQRL should be free, else the adoption will suffer and we all lose.

Re: another party to fill the void: that other party might be one not in the SQRL camp (FIDO). If we're all ok with that, then I'll leave it at that.

Since Jeff has expressed his desire to be compensated for his work, I was offering to pay him directly for his work, rather than putting the burden on other customers who might not understand the value if they don't see it for themselves (and they won't if you ask them to open their wallet).
 

Steve

Administrator
Staff member
May 6, 2018
992
290
www.grc.com
No no no... nothing here has been unwelcome. And I would suggest that Jeff may find this discussion very useful! :)
 
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0.NRG

Active member
May 19, 2018
43
10
Another thing for people to consider is that even some cheapskates might pay a small amount to be able to have the SQRL app if they see how well and simple SQRL works and they can move away from usernames, passwords, and all that goes with it. But, they might not be willing to pay until SQRL takes off and many sites and services support it. @Jeffa might need to start off with the iOS app free or $0.99, but be able to raise the price a bit as adoption happens and it is more of a legitimate option for more sites and services.
 

Gristle

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2019
341
70
@Jeffa might need to start off with the iOS app free or $0.99, but be able to raise the price a bit as adoption happens and it is more of a legitimate option for more sites and services
This is perfectly reasonable and is a great idea IMO, though I would say there is a huge difference in perception between $0.99 and free. I'd suggest making it free, let it blossom, then up the price to whatever. Jeff will be able to track the number of downloads over time, and also the number of sites that support SQRL. By making it free at first, you are also rewarding early adopters while not stifling SQRL growth.

Until there are a handful of useful sites to log in to, reasonable people are not going to put up $0.99 on this unless they already have a friend who has shown them how cool it is. Fortnite made billions on a free app, not a $0.99 app.
 

ramriot

Well-known member
May 24, 2018
70
9
Today, I'm meeting with a software group who is producing all of the UI software (screen interfaces) for all four of the top high-end exercise equipment manufacturers (Life Fitness, Woodway, etc.) and they also just closed the entire Equinox chain.

It's a total coincidence, but the lead software architect and CEO of this group is a multi-decade very good techie friend of mine. He learned about SQRL before anyone else, and he has been patiently waiting for SQRL to be ready... because ALL of the pro-level systems they create to control their treadmills, ellipticals, climbers, etc. for physical fitness gym purchase (which is all of them) and the entire Equinox chain, will be using SQRL to allow gym members to authenticate to any equipment they are using.

Since I will be giving them (I'm meeting with three execs for dinner) an updated demo of SQRL, I just updated my copy of Jeff's SQRL client for iOS to take it out for a spin.

... and I am STUNNED by its seamless and flawless operation and ease of use. It's going to FLOOR THESE GUYS!! :)

The move to use the password only to unlock the identity and to henceforth trust the device's biometrics for authentication is intoxicating.
That is certainly an interesting use case, which unless all the equipment is connected to a central internet based service will I think would need to operate against some other unit unique Realm string, the network facing MAC address for example, which since was are proximal to the device should not create an additional weakness due to the lack of potential user recognition on the Realm display check.
 

Jeffa

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
130
49
Now that we've all been kibitzing... I suggest that we wait to see what Jeff thinks. :)
Hi,

I am glad my opinion still counts too. :)

Thanks to all contributors to this thread.

All I am really sure of is there HAS to be A business model.

This is not about taking profit, it is about buying the time to do things right.

Free up front, free forever just encourages disposable software. Developers have no ongoing incentive to deliver quality or support their software. Users have no investment, so don’t bother to report bugs.
 

warwagon

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
164
63
Iowa
Hi,

I am glad my opinion still counts too. :)

Thanks to all contributors to this thread.

All I am really sure of is there HAS to be A business model.

This is not about taking profit, it is about buying the time to do things right.

Free up front, free forever just encourages disposable software. Developers have no ongoing incentive to deliver quality or support their software. Users have no investment, so don’t bother to report bugs.
I think a free client with no ads would be alright, that just works to log people into the SQRL sites. BUT ... there could also be a PRO version which costs money which does a bit more. Maybe allows users to sync their site list or something.
 

Gristle

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2019
341
70
Free up front, free forever just encourages disposable software.
I don't think you have to go to this extreme. I just wanted to highlight there is a spectrum of options between 100% free and $0.99 up front that can both be profitable and not impede early adoption.
 

Frantz

Member
Mar 17, 2019
12
2
I don't think you have to go to this extreme. I just wanted to highlight there is a spectrum of options between 100% free and $0.99 up front that can both be profitable and not impede early adoption.
Yes, I think Freemium is the way to go. Free for basic functionality. Paid upgrade for extra bells and whistles.
 
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nandostyle

New member
Jun 13, 2019
4
0
I believe that Jeff plans to keep his client closed and also to charge a nominal fee for his client on the iTunes store once it's complete. This has always been the case, and I think it's fine. I would never tolerate ads on such a client, and the returned value will be so great -- and we do need ongoing support -- that I would PREFER to pay something to keep the client free, updated and well supported. I don't expect everyone to work for free, and creating a fully working SQRL client, as Jeff, Daniel, Jaap and I can attest, is not a small bit of work.
Jeff, should definitely charge something for the app. Just like you should at some point for enterprise implementation
 

MrObvious

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2019
49
5
So, I think there should be an in app purchase where you can donate that way. But since SQRL is a free concept forcing people to pay is ludicrous.
 

PHolder

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
910
122
But since SQRL is a free concept forcing people to pay is ludicrous.
I don't think the IP being free means the implementation of clients needs to be free. Software doesn't write itself and software developers need to eat. If you want something nice, it's probably not going to be free.
 
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