Nothing in the SQRL client UI which lets you delete an identity.


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warwagon

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May 20, 2018
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Today when I was creating a test identity for a video I was creating, I noticed I had a lot of old identities in SQRL which I wanted to remove but there didn't seem to be a way to do in it in the UI. I ended up just opening the SQRL folder in the documents folder and deleted the files. Something way too complicated for the average Joe. Hopefully, it's in the UI and i just couldn't find it.
 

Steve

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May 6, 2018
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Adam... Deleting SQRL identities is not in the UI and it never will be in any SQRL client that GRC endorses. This is QUITE deliberate. Those of us who have been experimenting with SQRL have been creating identities with abandon. And they have been inherently throwaway identities. But that will not -- probably ever -- be the case for real users of SQRL. I'm a bit alarmed that the other SQRL clients offer identity creation after an identity already exists as readily as they do. I think that's a mistake. I feel strongly that the SQRL UI should be designed to encourage the behavior that we want. Creating more than one identity is not something we want. Deleting an identity is almost never something that we want. So deletion is completely missing from the SQRL UI by design.
 
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Dave

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May 19, 2018
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Today when I was creating a test identity for a video I was creating, I noticed I had a lot of old identities in SQRL which I wanted to remove but there didn't seem to be a way to do in it in the UI. I ended up just opening the SQRL folder in the documents folder and deleted the files. Something way too complicated for the average Joe. Hopefully, it's in the UI and i just couldn't find it.
Yeah, I made - and lost - that argument a long time ago.
 
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warwagon

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May 20, 2018
165
64
Iowa
Adam... Deleting SQRL identities is not in the UI and it never will be in any SQRL client that GRC endorses. This is QUITE deliberate. Those of us who have been experimenting with SQRL have been creating identities with abandon. And they have been inherently throwaway identities. But that will not -- probably ever -- be the case for real users of SQRL. I'm a bit alarmed that the other SQRL clients offer identity creation after an identity already exists as readily as they do. I think that's a mistake. I feel strongly that the SQRL UI should be designed to encourage the behavior that we want. Creating more than one identity is not something we want. Deleting an identity is almost never something that we want. So deletion is completely missing from the SQRL UI by design.
So I was actually thinking about your response as I was going to sleep tonight, and actually got out of bed to write this post before I forgot the thoughts I was having :D (and so I could go to sleep faster)

I agree with you that we as testers are the edge case and the average user will only have 1 identity. But as my mind wandered I came up with a few scenarios where a delete identity might be beneficial and where someone might want to use it. I'll just list the 3 I came up with

1) Someone has a used computer that they want to give to a friend. Most people that I've seen never format a drive, heck they don't even uninstall stuff. What they will do is take personal info they have off the machine before they give it away (and some won't even do that). Now let's assume SQRL is a success and everyone has an identity. This person's identity is on this machine in SQRL but they want to give it away so they would like to delete their identity off the machine first (useless without the password I know). I will admit in this scenario if they happen to nuke the contents of the documents directory the identity would be deleted.

2) A Boyfriend and GF or Husband and Wife share a computer and they both have their identities in the computer. They break up or get a divorce. Someone keeps the laptop and the other person wants to delete their identity off the laptop, plus the other person who kept the laptop would prefer not to see the ex's name on the identity list for the rest of his life. :D

3) An entire family all have identities on the family computer. Now one or all of the children move out and no longer want their identity on that machine.

Obviously deleting an identity would not be click delete and "Bloop" it's gone. It would be an "are you sure you want to do this, You type yes.". and then to make sure you are really really sure, you have to type your password.

I do get where you are coming from, as we would prefer a person create one identity and stick with it rather than creating a bunch because they know they can delete the ones they don't want. You are correct, there would be those people. But there are other people who have could have a legitimate reason to want to delete an identity off a machine

With that, good night waves 😴
 

DeMentor

Active member
Feb 1, 2019
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@warwagon you can delete the <indentity>.sqrl file in the SQRL client folder in the User's Document folder in order to manually delete the identity.
You can also rename the file in order to rename the identity.
 

shanedk

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
421
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Adam... Deleting SQRL identities is not in the UI and it never will be in any SQRL client that GRC endorses. This is QUITE deliberate. Those of us who have been experimenting with SQRL have been creating identities with abandon. And they have been inherently throwaway identities. But that will not -- probably ever -- be the case for real users of SQRL. I'm a bit alarmed that the other SQRL clients offer identity creation after an identity already exists as readily as they do. I think that's a mistake. I feel strongly that the SQRL UI should be designed to encourage the behavior that we want. Creating more than one identity is not something we want. Deleting an identity is almost never something that we want. So deletion is completely missing from the SQRL UI by design.
It's not about deleting your identity, it's about deleting your identity FROM THAT DEVICE. Read the riot act to make sure the user isn't deleting their only copy? All my yes. But there needs to be some way in the UI of deleting the identity file so if, say, you want to give your laptop to your child.

But yeah, like Dave, I remember losing this argument with Steve on the newsgroup.
 

Vela Nanashi

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May 19, 2018
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I do not think my documents is a location people have a hard time finding, you would need to go in there to clear your personal data anyway, of course SQRL could have a dialog with help information that tells you "hey the identity file is stored in my documents" and that should be quite enough for people to know where to go if they want to do things to their identity file.
 

shanedk

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
421
113
But as it is, users aren't given any clue, and personally I'd feel a lot better if the SQRL client had the functionality to go in and zero out the data in the identity before deleting it.

Also, this isn't an issue with Steve's client, but on some OSes like Android and iOS the app is given its own secure area to put files in that the user cannot access. That's by design, since it prevents malware from accessing that area, too, and obviously that would be very bad. But those clients absolutely, 100%, no more discussion, need to give the user some way of deleting the identity.
 

Dave

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
486
99
Gardner, MA
I ended up just opening the SQRL folder in the documents folder and deleted the files.
I would be embarrassed to tell you how long it took before it dawned on me that it was THAT simple. I somehow had it in my mind that multiple identities would be a collection of blobs inside a bigger blob. I was right all along. It's just that that bigger blob was, of course, the file system. D'OH! :rolleyes:
 

DeMentor

Active member
Feb 1, 2019
26
6
It's not about deleting your identity, it's about deleting your identity FROM THAT DEVICE. Read the riot act to make sure the user isn't deleting their only copy? All my yes. But there needs to be some way in the UI of deleting the identity file so if, say, you want to give your laptop to your child.

But yeah, like Dave, I remember losing this argument with Steve on the newsgroup.
Maybe the word "Delete" is not the right word to be used here.
@Steve Maybe it should be added to the client as "Disassociate your identity from this device" option?

-DM
 

Jason L.

Member
Feb 2, 2019
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0
I agree that there are times when you want to delete an identity from a device, especially phones. People abandon phones and get new ones all the time.
 

NeoXander

Member
Feb 13, 2019
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My opinion is the following: if you can have more than one identity (and you should) you must have a way to remove one or all. Let me explain my point of view.

I have one identity that I use on me personal/private life and another I use for work. At a given moment I have just one mobile phone/computer/whatever and I use both identities on it. Later on I buy another equipment that I'll use just for work (or personal use). I must have a way of MOVE me professional (or personal/private) identity from one equipment to another. Let's suppose I keep the first equipment for work and the new for private stuff; let's assume we are talking about computers. I have an employee that uses that work computer and I wish he can use my professional identity to manage a professional webpage/Facebook/whatever but I don't what him to access my private/personal accounts.

Furthermore, any identity I create is mine and mine alone. I'm the only owner of my identity and I should be able to do with it what I want even if it's terminating/deleting it.

The legal part could be a problem but that's not my area and I'll leave it to someone more qualified.

I my opinion don't letting people delete one identity is not a solution for the problem of people creating identities with the intention of disposing them after or "do something bad with it" and "erase proof"... Even Android apps without that function and on mobile phones without root the user can simply use other methods to do so:
  • Easiest: clear cache and storage of the app; install other identities;
  • Keeping other identities: create a backup of the application and data; create new identity and use it; restore backup when finish.

One more thing: I think early adopters won't be the average Joe, it will be tech savvy users and those users like to have control of their data...
 

warwagon

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
165
64
Iowa
One more thing: I think early adopters won't be the average Joe, it will be tech savvy users and those users like to have control of their data...
Tech-savvy users can delete their sqrl identity file from sqrl folder located in the documents folder. Its the average joe who needs a delete button.
 
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NeoXander

Member
Feb 13, 2019
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0
Tech-savvy users if they know they can delete the sqrl identity file from the sqrl folder in the documents folder. Its the average joe who needs a delete button.
Agree on that but some will ask why shouldn't be there a button to do that and worst, some could start speculating why someone don't want that button to be there in the first place.
 

warwagon

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
165
64
Iowa
Agree on that but some will ask why shouldn't be there a button to do that and worst, some could start speculating why someone don't want that button to be there in the first place.
Yes not having a way to delete the identity from inside the SQRL app will catch come criticism on release
 
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