New feature proposal: save Alternative ID name in application

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Julian

New member
Jun 25, 2019
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Hi,
Thanks for the android app. It works fine (thanks @kalaspuffar ).
A have the following suggestion for improvement:
When you want to use alternative ID, you have to remember which ID you use for each site and enter full password each time.
Could it be possible in the client to save the alternative id to a list, associated with a website (if possible), or a global list if first option is not possible.
Saving password to enter only the first n digits should be fine also :)
What do you think about it?
Regards
 

kalaspuffar

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
269
91
Sweden
coderinsights.com
Hi @Julian

My guess is that you are using the current production version or perhaps the previous alpha.

The new alpha have a fix that probably will solve your issue and more.


I'll not release it to production before extensively testing it and fixing some issues with extra functions that I've found.

But it's coming :)

Best regards
Daniel
 

shanedk

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
317
86
I think you're talking about two different things. Reading your issue, you're talking about remembering the Alt-ID temporarily with a QuickPass. What Julian is talking about is an oft-discussed feature in the newsgroup: the client remembering the previous Alt-IDs you've put in for easy re-use later.
 

Dave

Well-known member
May 19, 2018
388
73
Gardner, MA
Not any specific implementation was required.
I thought the same thing @shanedk did:

When you want to use alternative ID, you have to remember which ID you use for each site and enter full password each time.
Could it be possible in the client to save the alternative id to a list, associated with a website (if possible), or a global list if first option is not possible.
 

ahauser

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2019
82
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Could it be possible in the client to save the alternative id to a list, associated with a website (if possible), or a global list if first option is not possible.
Hi @Julian, thanks for using the Android client and for suggesting new features.

If I remember correctly, your suggestion was discussed before among us Android devs and I think we've all agreed that the feature of remembering Alt-Ids should come to the Android client sooner or later.

However, we are currently working on getting all the core functionality working nicely and finding and eliminating all bugs and flaws in the program flow. Once we are at a stage where we are confident that we've accomplished all of that, we'll tackle the "nice to have" features.
 
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Gristle

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Feb 16, 2019
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Dave

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May 19, 2018
388
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Gardner, MA
and if you really need more than 1 alt-ID, maybe you shouldn't use SQRL for those sites.
I can envision a scenario where one might want to have multiple alt id's for a web site. But it would definitely be the exception, not the norm. Maybe, as the webmaster of a site, I want to have the real me, webmaster me, and say, 3 other id's for testing things like access and permissions or list membership. In which case I would have plain me (no alt-Id) and "webmaster" or "wm" and something like "1", "2", "3" or maybe "t1", "t2", t3". Even a single character like "." is a COMPLETELY different user.

How many sites do you currently have, and actually use, multiple logons on? Most people would say "none". Even real nerds could count them on one hand and they probably have 2 on them. I would think only trolls would have enough to worry about.
 
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PHolder

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May 19, 2018
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Some people have very limited imaginations. There are all kinds of reasons why someone might not want to associate a website with their primary identity. Maybe they're joining a site that they don't want others to know about (porn being the most obvious.) Maybe they're a developer having to test things on their [many] [customer's] sites. Maybe they're subject to strict parents who snoop often, and are a closeted gay, lesbian or transgendered teen. Maybe they're the next Edward Snowden. Maybe they're a dissident in Hong Kong or China. I could go on, but I shouldn't have to. Just because *YOU* can't foresee why others have a need doesn't invalidate it.
 

Gristle

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shanedk

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May 20, 2018
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I also don't get why you'd need a different one per site. The IDK created for example.com<NULL>1 and the one created for sensitivesite.com<NULL>1 will have nothing whatsoever that ties them together, despite having the same Alt-ID of 1.
 
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Gristle

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PHolder

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May 19, 2018
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I also don't get why you'd need a different one per site.
Boy this is frustrating. Some of you don't see a need for something so therefor you think no one should have it. And we've gone around and around and around on this with no one bringing anything new to the party.

The simplest reason, although there may be numerous others, to have a separate identity, is so that you can share it or give it away.... or plausibly deny it.

I understand that Steve's design is simplified... and I appreciate the minimalism... but by being minimal it cannot and does not meet all needs... I am tired of some people lecturing other people that "they're doing it wrong." Maybe they're doing exactly what they understand their needs to be and it's just that some people's imagination is too limited to understand other people's needs...?

And yes I recall that we discussed how MSA would solve some of these issues... and look, here is the first real use of SQRL (anywhere in the world) right here on on this site, and please note precisely how well supported MSA is.
 

alt3rn1ty

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Feb 2, 2019
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I also don't get why you'd need a different one per site. The IDK created for example.com<NULL>1 and the one created for sensitivesite.com<NULL>1 will have nothing whatsoever that ties them together, despite having the same Alt-ID of 1.
Here's one use which Steve says at the end of the thread "Yep. That's a PERFECT use-case for the Alt-ID... and it's exactly the problem that it was designed to solve. And you already grokked that you CAN also use it, with a hard-to-guess string if you wanted to "add an additional password" to an account where you wanted REAL security. This is one of the reasons why I have lobbied for NOT ever storing them in any clients." ..
 
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shanedk

Well-known member
May 20, 2018
317
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None of that says anything about why the Alt-ID would need to be different per site! If you have example.com<NULL>1 and sensitivesite.com<NULL>1, those IDKs that are created for each site are going to be just as different as if you did example.com<NULL>1 and sensitivesite.com<NULL>2. It's going to be just as impossible to associate those two IDKs together, even if a hacker somehow got both of them.

This has nothing to do with "imagination." It has to do with understanding how Alt-ID works. If you don't need more than (say) 3 Alt-IDs for any given site, you don't need more than 3 all total.
 

sj phillips

Active member
May 20, 2018
32
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Family life can get complicated. I will need two Alt-IDs for my kids school lunch accounts, Sarah and Gracie. I will need two more for my students at Northwestern, James and Robert. And I will need three for Mom and Dad and Uncle Jim at the old folks home. Their names will be my Alt-ids. Much easier to remember that 1, 2 and 3.
 
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StarBlazer

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Jun 13, 2019
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Here is one scenario that argues for a lot of alternate IDs: I am a tester and I have to test a variety of accounts on the company website. As in 70 different types. (Please don't ask. I didn't design this.) So I actually need a spreadsheet to keep track of all my test IDs and associated data. Not as big a security risk as you might think, because these are accounts that only work in a test environment, not in the Real World. But if the site used SQRL I'd need 70 alternate IDs to test all the different account combinations. The combinations have nothing to do with logins and passwords, and are all about different features and packages purchased for each account.

I can identify with the need to be able to create IDs that you give away. As someone who is the family Tech Support guy (and aren't we all?) I often set up computers for my less-nerdy relatives. If SQRL takes off, I'd like to be able to include that in the setup for them, but I surely don't want to give them MY ID. And yes, I would probably be the one keeping the backups and rescue codes for them, because they wouldn't understand what to do.
 
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Dave

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May 19, 2018
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Family life can get complicated.
Amen!

Much easier to remember that 1, 2 and 3
Oh, absolutely! :) Whatever makes sense. Using "1", "2", and "3" would only make sense if it made sense to the user and the situation. In my example above it was just 3 distinct other accounts like how, in the old pre-:sqrl: days of logon id's and passwords, I might create logins like "NotMe", "NotMe2", and "JohnQPublic".
This is all an interesting thought exercise! May we actually have to worry about them one day!!!

It is interesting to think that you would need two different account for your kids' school lunches. I would hope it would be a/your parent account with two students, but that might be a bit forward thinking for a school. ;-)

As for the "assisted living facility" scenario (and maybe even above), presumably you are suggesting that there would be one account in each name but that you would be the one logging in on their behalf? That would certainly seem like an excellent application for Alt-Id's (not that you, or anyone, need(s) my validation ;)). That would also be an excellent use case for the aforementioned MSA. Or even, perhaps, a simplified/restricted form of MSA where each unique account was in their own name/identity but could also have a second identity associated with it as, say, the primary contact or legal guardian, which could be the same on all three accounts.

Hmmm...
 

shanedk

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May 20, 2018
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Family life can get complicated. I will need two Alt-IDs for my kids school lunch accounts, Sarah and Gracie. I will need two more for my students at Northwestern, James and Robert. And I will need three for Mom and Dad and Uncle Jim at the old folks home. Their names will be my Alt-ids. Much easier to remember that 1, 2 and 3.
I think for those you should probably create different identities entirely, one for each flesh-and-blood human. You can take care of all of their needs until they turn 18, at which point you can turn the identities and Rescue Codes over to them.
 
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Gristle

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